Classic 2CV Racing Club

Classic 2CV Racing Club Ltd Forum => Technical => Topic started by: Marc Fenner on November 18, 2008, 20:31:23

Title: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 18, 2008, 20:31:23
Are we aloud to doing anything to the pistons???
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Derek Coghill on November 18, 2008, 22:41:07
Best to do it quietly......

I think "no" is the answer you're looking for...there's a bit somewhere in the regs which states that it is forbidden to mill/machine/grind/polish anything not expressly permitted.
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: philip myatt on November 19, 2008, 08:34:39
Derek's got the general idea, however, I would suggest that you read the rules, you may be surprised at the things that are covered that you'd assumed there would be no problem tweaking.
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Steve Panas on November 19, 2008, 10:20:10
 ;D 8)
If it says you can you can. If it don't say you can you cannot.
Steve
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 19, 2008, 13:47:32
Hmm ok well does anyone no where i cn get a copy of the regs??? :-\
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Derek Coghill on November 19, 2008, 16:22:35
Yes....here.

http://www.2cvracing.org.uk/technical/25-gettingstarted
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Trevor Williams on November 19, 2008, 20:59:13
And you have entered a car in the 24 hour race how many times?????????  :o
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 20, 2008, 11:52:26
I have the rules somewhere but not with me at uni! Have lots of new ideas though i want to try and dont know if i can for racing. Also looking into developing a new cam shaft for racing as my second year project. ;D
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Derek Coghill on November 20, 2008, 18:05:36
<developing a new cam shaft for racing>

Why?
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 20, 2008, 22:01:39
Because i actually feel that there could be better. I think now after long chats etc with people who build and design engine that the cam has the wrong profile. I believe this is part of the reason that we are pulling valve heads off.
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Derek Coghill on November 20, 2008, 23:43:43
Would you not be better off designing a valve that won't break in the circumstances?

(tempting fate a bit...)....I haven't dropped a valve yet; one engine has done 2 seasons (minus the last race at Mallory) and 3 24 hour races (2 at Snetterton and 1 at Spa) with regular oil changes and occasional valve spring changes. It's had one head off for the scrutineers and one off to retrieve bits of broken cable tie; undisturbed apart from that.

I suppose the answer is to get Norry to build your engines.......
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Trevor Williams on November 21, 2008, 11:43:02
Why do we consistantly feel the need to beat ourselves up over the camshaft? For every person who says the profile is wrong, there is an equally vocal person who says it isn't.

Didn't bully compare the profile of the standard to club cam?

How to scare people away from racing when money may be tight if we tell them that we will change an expensive part of the engine, again

Great idea as a uni study / project, but leave it at that

Cheers

Trevor
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Paul Robertson on November 21, 2008, 12:13:12
And we should now have valves that don't break thanks to g&s.
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 21, 2008, 12:44:55
Yeah i think its going to be a great project hence going for it.

I looked a bully's comparisons and looking at the race cam it looks like it closes far to harshly. It should idealy slow down just before it closes.

What valves are we going for now then paul???
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Paul Robertson on November 22, 2008, 12:53:33
I have received them today via trevor one piece stainless valves made especially for the club by G&S valves in Godalming,theu are made to our regs and require no modification.
They make 5mm stem 41mm head valves that rev to over 11000rpm so the club's 8mm and 8.5mm stem ones should be nigh on indestructable(we hope).
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 22, 2008, 23:56:32
Will we need to change the valve guides and springs??

Dont know if there is a wieght difference with new ones??

Also will stainless work ok with the current valve guides?
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: philip myatt on November 24, 2008, 09:39:04
more questions for your uni project then?
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Paul Robertson on November 24, 2008, 10:35:35
The regs don 't say you can use different valve guide material marc so according to our rules you can't change it anyway even if you wanted to.
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Marc Fenner on November 24, 2008, 14:00:58
I wasnt saying i wanted to Paul. Just wondered if the 2 materials will work together???
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Trevor Williams on November 24, 2008, 19:42:17
In answer to the question of valve weight, here is what I have found:

Standard Road valve from ECAS = Exh 65g, Inlet 65g
Race valves from ECAS = Exh 55g, Inlet 60g
2CVRC 1 piece valves = Exh 55g, Inlet 55g

All valves brand new, never been used

Trevor
(Sad, I know!!!!)  ;D
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Andrew Bull on November 25, 2008, 12:52:28
very very sad :'( :'( :'( :( :'(
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Roy Eastwood on March 05, 2009, 12:54:46
The new valves are indeed very nicely made - as would be expected from a top UK manufacturer, they are in fact manufactured from 2 types of steel & are in reality 2 piece valves in the manner that would normally be expected, the use of a 'billet' cam will in fact obviate their use since there will no longer be 'float' except when an engine is vastly over-revved.

Quote from: Paul Robertson on November 22, 2008, 12:53:33
I have received them today via trevor one piece stainless valves made especially for the club by G&S valves in Godalming,theu are made to our regs and require no modification.
They make 5mm stem 41mm head valves that rev to over 11000rpm so the club's 8mm and 8.5mm stem ones should be nigh on indestructable(we hope).

Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Sean on March 22, 2009, 19:34:23
Quote from: Roy Eastwood on March 05, 2009, 12:54:46

the use of a 'billet' cam will in fact obviate their use since there will no longer be 'float' except when an engine is vastly over-revved.

Hows that then?

If Kent grind your new billet to their (Our?) Race profile surely the characterisics, and flaws, will be the same? or can you get some other shop to do the grind as long as its to the club cam spec.
Sean
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Trevor Williams on March 23, 2009, 12:56:36
The regs state the cam can only come from the club's approved supplier, namely Kent Cams. Any one else doing anything to a cam would be in breach of the regs and in SERIOUS trouble if / when caught
Title: Re: Pistons
Post by: Sean on March 23, 2009, 20:46:12
Quote from: Trevor Williams on March 23, 2009, 12:56:36
Any one else doing anything to a cam would be in breach of the regs and in SERIOUS trouble if / when caught

Ok- Knew that ;D
And whats the advantage of a billet cam, presuming there is an advantage or else why go to the trouble / expense ???

Sean