It says in the regs that we can use a "Weber Twin Choke 32/35 DMTL – venturi sizes 25/26mm specification as supplied in club approved kit" is there a part number for this carb? and what is the kit that 'the club' has approved?
Its not yet approved lien,if it isn't approved 4 weeks before cadwell(3rd march) it won't be approved until at least 4 weeks before mallory.It will be ready to bolt on, jetted ,including exchange inlet manifold and air filter adaptor.
Is there any performance gain? Also what's the costing of this going to be?
About 3bhp/£200ish mark
Has it been tested on the track? Does it make any difference on track times?
The test has been cancelled twice now due to adverse weather conditions.
Maybe thats the god of speed telling us something lol ???
Will the jetting need to be as supplied?
Yesterday's test was very good the carb performed well with no fuel surge at all and a definite increase in performance.
With all the work(over 70 hours) that has been done there should be no need for any changes to the carb setup,although if you want to change fuel and air jets you will be permitted although emulsion tubes will have to be ,as stated by the club.
In the fulllness of time all the data will become available.
Hi Paul
Who do we have to speak to about ordering a new carb package if its approved for racing?
phil myatt
When will we know if we can use the new carb? Is it likely to be before cadwell?
The availability and when it can be used will be announced as soon as everything is in place to do so.
Everything has now been sorted. The requirements of the AGM vote have all been met and an initial batch will soon be avilable. See announcements to place you requirements
A cheque is in the pos to you philip ;D
First carb kits will hopefully be dispatched next week.
Philip
i assume that as they are not available within 2 weeks of the meeting,if ours are part of the first batch,we wont be able to use them at cadwell.as previously stated by a former member of the board,these had to be available 4 weeks before the meeting, otherwise it's introduction would be put back to mallory
They were available for order more than 4 weeks before Cadwell, as long as everyone who is entered at Cadwell and has paid in advance for one has it available it will be permitted at Cadwell.
So who is on that list?
Not me trev,wish i was,bloody msa medics.
;D We are ;D
Philip
Dont worry about posting it i will collect it next week with the tyres if thats ok
i guess our's are imminent then,it would be nice to try out beforehand
The carbs will will be sent out on a carrier today on a next day delivery.
Hi....how did the new carbs do on Cadwell?! Good results or better stay with the solex?
Tnx Kars
Both races won by a car running with the Solex
Laptimes compared to the last time we were there were slower with the Weber
Also, not a "plug and play" modification. It would seem that one would have tp test at every circuit to be sure that the new carb works
The new tyres, however, were great!
FYI
I beleive the Laptimes to be fairly comparable to last time out considering other variable such as weather and wind conditions, and also the fact we have smaller tyre footprint with a smaller rolling diameter and heavier cars. Also the nature of cadwell circuit is very very technical and as such setup and driver ability will show more promentantly than outright horse power alone.
There were a few teething problems experienced by those that tested the day before and they were not experienced when the original carburettor (now in use in the gadget team) was tested prior to approval. Several Webers were found to have some foriegn objects in the float chambers and blocked jets too. All information discovered during testing was divulged so as all runners of the Weber could set them up to perform as well as possible.
For your further information the weber is in theory 2 seconds per lap faster than the race. This is according to the data logged during the two races, and analysis of the ultimate fastest sectors during both races, from the same car, same driver, revealed a theoretical lap time of 2.06.13. See attached. However this does not take in to account traffic, battles etc etc.
Circuits like mallory and snetterton, (and possibly croft) I beleive will highlight that power difference more acutely.
As i have no direct driving experience of either carb on the track i shall not enter in to the information provided from drivers, about feel and response.
Regards
Just to follow on;
The gooseneck and Barn Corner were where the most time was to be had. Being good through Barn was worth 2-3 mph extra for the first 45 seconds of the lap. :o
And the gooseneck could loose you a second in one corner alone, if not done abosolutley perfect and BIG balls in your pocket. ! :)
one more....i promise.
It did fullfil the original brief though. It is a known equal replacement for the old hard to find 'good' Solex, you could buy a weber kit, replace the knackered solex, bolt it on, use the jets as supplied and go as fast as any one else out there. (Assuming you can drive and the car is setup right too). It does what it says on the tin. .......Paints fences. ???..er...no....
Its getting late!
My carb hasn't arrived yet...
Nicely put Bully (have you been watching those Political broadcast on the telly)
I am sure the carb is going to be a success, I do think its a step forward in the reliability/less hassle stakes, with the limited testing that the club had with this (the bad weather we had earlier in the year did not help) Its was a brave thing that the club had done with launching it for the first round.
With Matt winning both races after a great drive (from a very experienced driver) what it has shown is that it is not an essential bolt on go fast accessory yet, will Matt be running the Solex at Mallory I suppose we will have to wait and see.
And yes I would like one too ::)
Out of interest how many Webbers were out racing at Cadwell?
Simon Crook - Solex (both engines :'()
Matt Hollis - Solex
Quote from: Andrew Bull on April 12, 2010, 22:06:27
And the gooseneck could loose you a second in one corner alone, if not done abosolutley perfect and BIG balls in your pocket. ! :)
which is the case whatever carb you run
Bully I have to disagree with you that the times are comparable to the last time at Cadwell. Have a look at the comparisson in you other post
What you are basically saying is that any performance gain has been negatated by the new tyres and weight limit increase? But all through the discussion here and at the AGM. the performance gain was pushed. And yes, it is an option to use the weber. One that Neil Thompson described as necessary at the AGM in order to keep up! Thankfully, Matt has proved this wrong
The teething problems should not have happened. The Weber carb was sold as a "bolt on". Look at the first few posts in this thread. From what happened at Cadwell, it isn't! And the airfilters didn't fit properly either!
As for all information being shared, so it should be! We are basically now running a control carb. with no adjustments allowed. As for the clainm that it would get rid of fuel surge / starvation. it didn't. Even after the float height adjustment I was getting fuel starvation at the Hairpin and Park. This was not meant to happen. This will just force people to spend money testing when they were led to believe it wouldn't be necessary.
And what use is a theoretical laptime? Factually. the laptimes were slower!
All in all. and in my opinion, not a very successful debut.
I would have to agree with you trevor.
The fuel surge i find difficult to explain but will be looking at this further ,unfortunately i no longer possesss the prototype carb so cannot use that to see if there is any direct difference in the carbs.
The loss of power i don't,when the carb was set up it was december and very cold as was all the testing,this has lead to the carb being richer than it was in any of the setup work we had done.
None of us thought that the board would insist on not being able to change jets in fact the recommendation was that only the emulsion tubes be fixed and that the initial set up was just that.Sammie and i actually gave three options for the secondary air corrector .
To try and correct this mistake mark sammie and myself spent last saturday afternoon reassessing the jetting and have come up with what we believe will be a solution .Sammie and i are going to test it at mallory next wednesday and if it works we will be asking the board to allow the new settings.This is all at no further expense to the club.
Paul
A theoretical lap time gives you a much more accurate indication of what the car is capable of and negates most of the variables of driver performance over a single flying lap. Look at the fastest laps, not one ultimate sector but a reasonable time in each.
Its like CP vs Cpk (for anyone in the process engineering business) Cp gives you the process performance, in our case the process is the car, and the Cpk is the output performance, (which would normally be the component produced) in our case the lap time performance including the driver variable.
What we COULD say is that the Car is capable (Cp = the process performance) of producing times that are 2 seconds faster, but the limiting factor is the capabilities of the extra variables (CPk = total output performace) added to it. Driver and consistency of the perfect single lap.
An analogy that some may see others may not. Sorry if you dont see it.
My final thought is that this could all be bollocks, the cars are the same, and the drivers that are out there are as good as they were, although different ones at the front (matt, sammie and Gadet continued this year) and some small wind variation and track conditions could be the only variable that makes a blind bit of difference.
I'll Fuck off and leave it alone now. Lets see what happens at mallory......
Cheers
Paul, does that mean you are a weber carb down, and the club owes you one?
See you tonight
No wayne had the prototype at cadwell and i had his club kit.
On Friday this week I tested an engine (admittedly rebuilt) with the weber against an engine we used at Snet and which qualified us 15th and was our best engine. We ran that engine for around 13 hours before car came in misfiring etc and was swapped. We realised in the winter that it was only a points problem. We fixed the points and did not even change the oil on that engine.
The Snet engine thus was running the SOLEX and we were at Llandow and managed to match our best times from last year on the Toyos.
Swapped to the rebuilt engine and the weber with a level engine. Immediately we were around half a second quicker but with fuel starvation on right hand bends. Adjusted one side of the engine up slightly lower than for the SOLEX and no problems.
For me I was a second (its 60 to 61 seconds approx around Llandow) quicker so Weber seemed better. Engine and carb seemed to have more torque/ power.
So seemed a success. We would expect the engine to need tilting for Mallory so have left it at same setting as not doing any more tesing before qualifying..
If all carbs are the same and no-one can set different jets etc would suggest a more level performance across the grid.
i think we need the stig