Hi Guys - I went and bought a road cv to convert to a racer (jumped on the pedal cycle one morning to Manchester from Huddersfield - bought the car and drove it home, kept seventy up from junction 21 up to 22 if anyone knows that stretch of the M62) - after long conversations with a couple of people telling me to buy a ready made racer I came to the conclusion that A) that's a lot of money in one go B)I want a challenge to build one C) can be done bit by bit D) be a nice project for me and my two eldest boys (one being a Saturday mechanic) - so in essence any advice would be greatly appreciated
Racing regards Ash a.k.a Capt Naughty bear
crazy - possibly, determined - definitely
I once drove a land rover up that hill and the most it would do was 37mph.
i remember when I got my new astra in 2003 they sold me headlight protectors and said they were good for 80 - 90 mph until both came off up that hill @ 75 :( - long trip up to j22 then down to 21 and back to to see they had been driven over four million times :( obviously caused a minor hitch when asking for a refund!!!!
todays efforts any comments welcome
You won't need a full size battery,that will get in the way of the exhaust.
That does depend on the exhaust design, I run a full size battery without any problems
And you gear lever is upside down...
other than that it's lovely.
:( thought I had done ok for an amateur ( ha ha I can hear you saying it shows lol) - Alec, that's for when its on its roof ........ Not really sure on exhaust configuration as I would like to start with an economy class car so again any advice would be greatly appreciated - another burning but probably useless question ................... can I swap the existing broken black plastic gear knob for a nice new #14 pool ball? obviously drilled and tapped.
Hi Ash, as you would have seen up and down the paddock every car is different, your work looks neat and tidy keep up the good work :) when are you hoping to get it done by.
Simon
Yes you can change the gear knob!
Matt, No you can't........
5.9.1. Permitted Modifications
It is permissible to extend the gear change lever to allow 4th and reverse gears to be engaged whilst strapped in the driving position.
The gearchange must remain in the manufacturers intended position.
The two slots in the rear gearbox mounting may be closed (e.g. with welded washers).
The geartrain from a drum braked gearbox may be transferred to a disc braked gearbox, provided that the geartrain complies with 3 below.
It is permissible to strengthen the gear change linkage and substitute an alternative assembly for the standard rubber bushes, this must be mounted in the manufacturers original and unmodified position.
And.....
5.1 Introduction:
The following Technical Regulations are set out in accordance with the MSA specified format and it should be clearly understood that if the following texts do not clearly specify that you can do it you should work on the principle that you can not. For the purposes of these regulations, modification means any change in the design, material, shape, dimension and / or surface finish of any component except for basic manufacturing processes, normal wear and published service or repair procedures. 'Standard' is as defined in Citroen manuals MAN108161 and MAN 308162
::) Ains, We're in trouble!!!
Steve,
Only if the eligibility scrutineer clocks it, or another competitor protests it.....
;)
Hi Simon , in an ideal world for the twenty four this year but realistically I want to enter it for a full reason, economy class next year
that will be good to have another car out to play, have we got any other economy class cars running at the moment?
Quote from: Trevor Williams on May 09, 2013, 13:35:00
Matt, No you can't........
5.9.1. Permitted Modifications
It is permissible to extend the gear change lever to allow 4th and reverse gears to be engaged whilst strapped in the driving position.
The gearchange must remain in the manufacturers intended position.
The two slots in the rear gearbox mounting may be closed (e.g. with welded washers).
The geartrain from a drum braked gearbox may be transferred to a disc braked gearbox, provided that the geartrain complies with 3 below.
It is permissible to strengthen the gear change linkage and substitute an alternative assembly for the standard rubber bushes, this must be mounted in the manufacturers original and unmodified position.
And.....
5.1 Introduction:
The following Technical Regulations are set out in accordance with the MSA specified format and it should be clearly understood that if the following texts do not clearly specify that you can do it you should work on the principle that you can not. For the purposes of these regulations, modification means any change in the design, material, shape, dimension and / or surface finish of any component except for basic manufacturing processes, normal wear and published service or repair procedures. 'Standard' is as defined in Citroen manuals MAN108161 and MAN 308162
I call a broken gear knob 'normal wear' (as per regulation 5.1), so it can be changed. Ok, so it probably should be replaced by a standard gear knob and not a pool ball, but if someone actually protests something like that we may as well all just stop racing...
Matt,
A broken gear knob could be treated as wear and tear, and should be replaced by the standard part, ie the two piece hollow plastic ball thing.
To replace it with something that had a reduced likelyhood of failure would be modifying, which is not permitted. You could argue that the replacement part had absolutely no performance enhancing characteristics, and you may be correct.
However, by replacing a part with one that is less likely to fail, and therefore less likely to cause inconvenience in changing gears ( I have experience of gear levers and gear knobs breaking, just ask Tete Rouge....), you would fall foul of the MSA advice to consider this when dealing with the judicial matter.
Below is the extract from the Judicial Procedures
"An example of exceptional circumstances could be wrong type of windscreen wiper blades on a Group N car. But be careful, a claim that the ineligibility will not improve performance whilst it may be valid, ignores the fact that there could have been an improvement in vehicle reliability"
Would anyone ever protest something like this? Hyperthetically, if my car was dead-on balls accurate in conformance with the regulations, and I was beaten by someone whose car had this modification done, I would!!!
You compete under the regulations and expect the regulations to be the level playing field. If they field isn't level, do something about it. Either change the regulation to allow the modification (which is usually the course of action in the club), Challenge it by putting a protest in, or ignore the breach of the regulations......
ok so I see the pool ball question has some discussion - I think its time to really let the cat amongst the pigeons........................................... check out my freshly painted headlight unit thing :P
That's clearly performance-enhancing paint ;)
Are you allowed one of those pool balls which predicts the future? You could ask it if you should attempt to overtake at the next corner...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball
That's almost as pink as my original wheels (still got them).
How about the blue World Meeting gearknob, a same-sized direct replacement item? Matches some cars, too....
another full day on the car............ sh*ten up to the eyeballs again :-\ brake calipers off, fan off (rather easily which worried me), exhaust off - calipers cleaned and degreased, made a start on defluffing the gearbox case, and picked some bits up I won on ebay
8 hours scrubbing, not over happy yet but it got dark :(
would have put pictures of the offending crank cases but it wont let me
head light bar wired up at the weekend - got some funky little side lights in the pods and the pink looks awesome!!
well that's a slight set back - after a disaster in the garage this afternoon I don't think I can repair the body
front axle removed - stripped and rebuilt and shocked how much better it works after a rebuild.
I cant believe I'm actually saying this... but I'm now getting into your build-saga...
Can we have some pictures to spice it up?
When you've finished I'll rent u an engine if you like....
N
...perhaps someone could organise it so that we can have a section somewhere on the forum on how to build a racer, with pictures 'an that
N
I prefer epic rather than saga unless you are over fifty then that's fine by me , I cant seem to upload photos anymore but your quite welcome to check them out on facebook......
https://www.facebook.com/Racecanvas
I am gonna build my own engine but I am sure I will need another when it breaks lol
rr Ash
excellent week on and off with the car, carbon dash panel made up and both left hand side arms ready to install!!!!
wheels taken for shot blasting and now red leaded ready for a colour....................... any thoughts?
Flouro yellow. An under-represented colour in my humble opinion!
wheels have been painted but not sure if you will approve Chris, both front corners are now back on the car after the Belgium arm additions!!
Hey Ash... is the car finished yet? Are you in the 24hrs next week?
N
car has been finished months - in my head and no strangely enough I wont be in the race lol
back to the pool ball gear knob...........
5.9.1. Permitted Modifications
It is permissible to extend the gear change lever to allow 4th and reverse gears to be engaged whilst strapped in the driving position.
The gearchange must remain in the manufacturers intended position.
The two slots in the rear gearbox mounting may be closed (e.g. with welded washers).
The geartrain from a drum braked gearbox may be transferred to a disc braked gearbox, provided that the geartrain complies with 3 below.
It is permissible to strengthen the gear change linkage and substitute an alternative assembly for the standard rubber bushes, this must be mounted in the manufacturers original and unmodified position.
paying particular attention to "It is permissible to extend the gear change lever to allow 4th and reverse gears to be engaged whilst strapped in the driving position." by drilling tapping and screwing on a pool ball of slightly bigger diameter than the original black plastic thing I have extended the gear change lever which IS allowed lol
any opinions?????? 8)
Er............ No. Unfortunately this is still a performance enhancing modification as I stated earlier in the thread.
I am really confused then as I have lengthened the gear lever as per the regs but still its illegal :-\
It's probably heavier than the original and I doubt you'll get protested for it, which of course is the wrong attitude - it's not legal.
but do you not agree Louis , that it has lengthened the lever????? :P
Modifications that save engines and gearboxes are common sense and in no way a performance modifications.
As far as I'm aware 2cv racing is about low cost, close racing. Keeping the chance of expensive repairs as low as possible is surely fundamental to that. I have a modified lever and I intend to run it at some point, strapped correctly in the seat it's hard to reach 4th gear. If somebody is petty enough to protest it, I wouldn't know wether to laugh or walk away because I have no interest in petty arguments. If we start nit picking, we'll be arguing until the cars rot away and what is generally a nice paddock to be part of loses its appeal.
Lets get behind people who want to race and although there are many sceptics, Economy class is a great idea as the costs to be competitive in club class are rising rapidly. I'm sure areas like cylinder heads and carbs are far more likely to be modified for performance in ways that might not be in keeping with the tech regs. Also, in developing the aforementioned items considerable cost is incurred. The purpose of the series again?
If cost is an issue I will give you a gear knob Ash...
I would be honoured to accept your kind offer of a replacement knob - many thanks Louis but will you have enough knob left for yourself??
Quote from: Scooterman on August 04, 2014, 20:44:36
Modifications that save engines and gearboxes are common sense and in no way a performance modifications.
As far as I'm aware 2cv racing is about low cost, close racing. Keeping the chance of expensive repairs as low as possible is surely fundamental to that. I have a modified lever and I intend to run it at some point, strapped correctly in the seat it's hard to reach 4th gear. If somebody is petty enough to protest it, I wouldn't know wether to laugh or walk away because I have no interest in petty arguments. If we start nit picking, we'll be arguing until the cars rot away and what is generally a nice paddock to be part of loses its appeal.
Lets get behind people who want to race and although there are many sceptics, Economy class is a great idea as the costs to be competitive in club class are rising rapidly. I'm sure areas like cylinder heads and carbs are far more likely to be modified for performance in ways that might not be in keeping with the tech regs. Also, in developing the aforementioned items considerable cost is incurred. The purpose of the series again?
No,anything that improves reliability is ,in the 24hr race,a performance enhancement as it doesn't cost time making repairs. If you think carbs are being modified talk to Mr Hollis as this is definitely not permitted. If you think cylinder heads are being modified in an illegal manner those doing it aren't doing a very good job given the first 5 at cadwell.
Not really what I was getting at Paul. I don't know of anyone breaking tech regs, I think this year has been a lot more competitve now that most people have got grips with the Weber. I'm just wondering why we have so much fuss over a gear knob when there are other areas where people could exploit the rules for performance. I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone is. My concern is with the policing of regulations and the consistency. Everyone is going to push the boundaries in competition.
Yeah I'll find you one Ash, will you be at the 24hr?
not sure yet, Pete Sparrow did suggest it could be a good idea to bring along my eco car to show off to the 2cvgb peeps, so I could be .
Quote from: Scooterman on August 04, 2014, 20:44:36
If we start nit picking, we'll be arguing until the cars rot away
Quote from: Scooterman on August 04, 2014, 21:41:00
My concern is with the policing of regulations and the consistency.
All of that is being sorted ;D
Quote from: naughtybear on August 04, 2014, 19:49:13
I am really confused then as I have lengthened the gear lever as per the regs but still its illegal :-\
Unless you have lengthened the metal gear lever, then no, you haven't. ANY replacement of the ball on the end of the gear lever has to be standard, ie the two piece one. Anything else is a breach of the regulations.
As I said earlier, get yourself a copy of the MSA Judicial Procedures and see the advice given regarding what is and isn't performance enhancing...
However..... a larger diameter ball simultaneously both lengthens and shortens the gear lever. Shortening the gear lever isn't specifically permitted.
Mine's had a different ball on the end since I started racing and no-one's complained.
finally!!!!!!
Well done Ashl,how was it after all those hours of preparation?
well......... after slight adjustment to the brake pedal all was fine on that front, ran for a bit then decided to alter the back end due to bottoming out on the bump stops and then it was a little more driveable. after advice from Chris Yates and Louis Tyson I have raised the ride height on the back to be more in line with others and now is approx. at the measurements you advised me to set it at Paul. Initially was very wet at oulton until after lunch and a dry line did appear on most of the circuit, its extremely fun to drive and I think I have got the seat position suitable for me, no leaks anywhere so all in all I think was a positive outcome for the day.
I'm glad you had a good day. I would remove all bump stops Ash, they make things unpredictable.
Well done Ash. It looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing you next year at Oulton.
Thank you ! 8)