The BARC website is showing new dates and venues for 2023. Is this correct?
Hi Mick,
As it stands, yes. We are still in negotiation with the BARC about the Anglesey meeting due to it's proximity with the Pembrey meeting, so can't confirm absolutely 100% but it is looking doubtful if anything will change at this late stage. We should be able to confirm all the details soon, but for the time being I think it is very likely what the BARC have posted is correct. For everybody else's benefit this is the page Mick is referring to: https://www.barc.net/championship/2cv-parts-com-classic-racing-championship/ (https://www.barc.net/championship/2cv-parts-com-classic-racing-championship/)
Not if you go to 2023 season info it isn't.
April 15/16 - Cadwell Park
May 20/21 - Croft
June 3/4 - Anglesey
July 8/9 - Thruxton
August 25/26/27 - Snetterton 200
Hi Paul,
Yes I have alerted Martin about this, he is intending to speak to Mark Turner at BARC as soon as possible once Mark returns to work. From our understanding, the 2023 season info page is incorrect, but we will try and clarify everything as soon as we can.
Am I the only one that thinks this seasons race meetings are a total arse?
How can we possibly have 2 meetings in Wales 2 weeks apart. It is totally impracticable.
It gives 1 weekend to get ready for the Angelsey meeting! That's if anyone can afford to go after spending an extra£600.00 on a non championship enduro at Pembrey.
Well I for one am not spending in excess of £1100.00 in travelling to watch to watch 4no 15minute sprints.
If anyone is on a monthly salary, they need to start saving now for their fuel costs, that's on top of the entry and food.
This timing has taken 1 of our cars out of this years championship already.Lets hope no ones cost of living is going up!?
Gadget
I wholeheartedly agree with the above.
This season's circuit choices are to be blunt a joke.
Having 2 races in Wales 2 weeks apart is ridiculous, unless you happen to live on the doorstep, in which case it's all very well and good.
I'm not sure why we had the poll asking drivers which circuits they favoured as the results seem worthless.
With the cost of living etc increasingly as it has I can understand why the entry has increased but I can't figure why our actual race time has decreased again.
Surely at this rate we will be turning up for a 1 lap sprint or maybe a drag race.
The cost of racing is never going to get cheaper but what we appear to be saving on race entry is being spent on actually getting to the track for less minutes racing.
I don't get having an enduro that is not part of the championship, I've said this before as a single driver I am being penalised. This time to the tune of 25% of the entry having qualified already because I am participating in the championship not just turning up for 1 race.
If people want to introduce new drivers or test their cars for the 24 HR would it not make more sense to do an open track day at the cost of £275 ish for 8 hours rather than £600 for 90 minutes.
I don't see any reason to drive 13 hours for 2x 15 minute races and then follow that up with another 10 HR drive 2 weeks later for the same.
That is probably the biggest reason why I highly doubt I shall be competing in the championship this season.
When I can drive to Europe and compete in a 2 hour race for less than the cost of the above there has to be something wrong.
With all the grumping that went on about the moving of the 24hr from Snetterton to Anglesey and so on, I had a look at the times and mileages; as I remember there was about 50 miles of difference getting from Edinburgh to either circuit.
Spend the fortnight surfing.
Don't think it's the distances as much as the proximity of the events Derek.
I estimate from me @25mpg
Cadwell 90 miles £30 fuel
Pembrey 520 miles £175
Anglesey 360 miles £120
Oulton 210 miles £70
Oh if only I could attain 25 ttg.
I'm hovering around 16 but that's my choice for the vehicle I use. But there again I do accommodate for all my helpers and quite often people from other teams.
The above I don't mind and I will always offer someone a bed if I have a spare and they have no accommodation.
My issues are a few fold but as I'm in a minority it is what it is.
I just feel that the people who are actually keeping the club going are not always being thought of ( more being taken for granted ) and that it doesn't exactly show prospective new racers an affordable low cost series.
My mileage for this season's events works out at 1800 miles, which at 16 ttg is a little eye watering.
It's not the distance for me it's the ease of getting to the circuit.
I would rather pay the extra money for brands and have 2 hours less to travel than go to pembrey or Anglesey.
As noted at the AGM a unanimous vote was carried that doing both was not wished for.
A chance of an enduro was offered, but only at pembrey which then meant both Welsh events were a given.
This has now become a non championship event which for people like myself as noted above is a non runner.
At some point the people who actually pay to race and guarantee a series continues must be taken into consideration, if this means the club has to move away from barc then it has to happen.
The club and it's driver, helpers and loyal supporters etc deserve more than being offered the scraps from other race series just because they are a supposed more prestigious club which may only have 5/6 cars at the meeting.
Agreed Paul, hence my...
"Spend the fortnight surfing"
...comment.
There's good surf to be had at Anglesey, and there's a static wave place along the north coast (which I haven't been to).
I gave my board away five years ago...
Quote from: gadget on January 15, 2023, 12:10:49
Am I the only one that thinks this seasons race meetings are a total arse?
How can we possibly have 2 meetings in Wales 2 weeks apart. It is totally impracticable.
It gives 1 weekend to get ready for the Angelsey meeting! That's if anyone can afford to go after spending an extra£600.00 on a non championship enduro at Pembrey.
Well I for one am not spending in excess of £1100.00 in travelling to watch to watch 4no 15minute sprints.
If anyone is on a monthly salary, they need to start saving now for their fuel costs, that's on top of the entry and food.
This timing has taken 1 of our cars out of this years championship already.Lets hope no ones cost of living is going up!?
Gadget
What about, Cancel Anglesey, make the Pembrey Enduro part of the championship and give points at 45 as well as 90 minutes? That way we still have 9 points scoring opportunities. The saved entry and travelling costs of Anglesey should cover the cost of the enduro
I think I agree with most that has been said. I am keen for an enduro, as I am keen for more track time. I am not keen on 10min Q and a 15min races, however understand the reasons behind this, although I do not agree with them.
I do not want to go to Wales twice and my view is compounded by the trips to Wales being so close together, therefore, I won't go to both Welsh race meetings this year.
We did discuss options at the AGM. My impression was the current race calendar was an initial draft and it was not put in stone as the board were keen to gain the opinion of those at the AGM before finalising the race calendar. Various proposals were put forward because the general consensus was that two trips to Wales were not what was wanted by the majority especially only two weeks apart. I thought it was concluded to change the calendar and the favourite change (and the only change necessary) was to move Anglesey to another track and potentially after the 24hr race to gain cheaper track time, possibly in October.
I realise it is not possible to please everyone all the time, but from my understanding the current calendar doesn't please many.
I am in favour of Pauls proposal to scrap Anglesey and make the enduro as part of the championship. Alternatively, I am in favour to scrap either of the Welsh races and have an additional race after the 24hr.
Has anybody spoken to the 750MC? If I am going to race this year I will be hiring for the sprint races but 15 minute races don't appeal at all.
Dad and myself have been talking about the above over the last couple of days, it certainly appears as though a change of club should be considered. I know we have a long standing relationship with BARC but it does appear that we are being taken advantage of. The races we have been offered this year aren't particularly inspiring and it must be said that organisation at BARC events has been poor in recent years. The farcical Donington meeting a couple of years ago springs immediately to mind.
Just out of interest we had a look at pricing for the 750 Motor Club. Comparing their Stock Hatch Series, (the most like minded in terms of values it seems with our own club) to the prices we have been quoted by BARC.
They offer qualifying + 2x15 Sprint Races for £250-300 dependent upon the circuit.
I don't know how up to date their website is, but when we are looking at £1000 each per driver (for those sharing) for the sprint season, this represents excellent value. I know there are members who have raced with 750 Motor Club, so would be good for you to share your experiences.
The only real drawback I see with going to 750 Motor Club is ensuring the safety of our greatest asset, the 24hr race. BARC for all their failings, have ensured the longevity of the event and I'm not sure how many Enduro events 750 Motor Club are responsible for. We would without question lose our August Bank Holiday slot if we were to leave BARC, so this is something that must be considered..
It may well be too late in the day to negotiate anything for this season, but I think looking towards next year this is something that we need to look into as a club. There is clear discontent amongst members so we need a resolution ASAP.
Changing of club is difficult if we want to protect our 24hr race. It's a big gamble.
750mc usually have big grids, which equals big discounts for all. We get grid sizes of (just about) 20 which isn't too bad in these times, but 750 grids are often 30+. We just can't get there.
Also our need for 2x qualifying sessions doesn't help make things cheaper either. But we need that to enable fair sharing of cars.
Back to this year's season, we don't have any alternative venues given to us from BARC. There are a few options with what we have already:
a) Drop Anglesey entirely, keep the Pembrey enduro as non-championship, have a shorter season.
b) Drop Anglesey, but make the enduro a championship round.
c) Drop Pembrey in June, and go to Pembrey in October instead.
The third option would cause problems for the BARC and potentially the Minis, since it would leave a massive hole in BARC's programme for that weekend, since we've reserved time for enduro already. Also the Minis are looking to use that enduro to test their cars and maybe drivers before the 24hr.
The enduro could be made a championship round if we wanted. Paul's point about scoring points at 2 moments in the race - that would need to be investigated I think, but otherwise as good idea.
There is a very outside possibility of picking up another date from *somewhere* in the next month, but the various clubs are finalising their dates so there's not much fruit left on the treee.
So - what option would be acceptable to all of you?
Here is my 2 p worth....
It seems tolerably clear now that the position was pretty much fixed in the provisional calendar and it turned out, post-AGM, there was little room for manoeuvre despite best efforts. I do wonder why that is given a minute of track time is the unit of currency within the negotiation regarding time tables. Blue-chip events aside, why should any support series be preferred over another? One would have thought there is another series somewhere having the same conversation in reverse....
No one can sensibly argue that this timetable is ideal. It doesn't really represent a fair distribution of venues around the country (when regular competitors are distributed about) but, more significantly, the timing of the events will be tough on many of us. That is both in terms of cash flow and the actual time available to prepare the cars etc.
It may or may not be what it is, as they say, for this year given Chris's post but, moving into next year, is there anything we can do to have a greater influence on this?
It will be a huge shame if regulars find themselves unable to support the series anymore due to financial and/or time constraints.
Having read the above, Paul's idea seems a sensible suggestion. Having the enduro as non-championship does risk it turning into an expensive track day. It would be a shame to lose a weekend generally but if anglesey can't be sensibly replaced, it may be the best option
I cant believe anyone would actually pay for the 90 minutes enduro. I suspect we might have about 4 cars on the grid as the only cost effective logical way to participate would be for 2-3 drivers to join up and race one car!
Its extortionate! we could rent a circuit independently and run an open pit lane track day. 20cars x £600 = £12000.
Enduro costs
600 / 90 = £6.66 per minute.
24 hr race costs (assume £2800 entry)
12800 / 1440 = £1.94 per minute
I know sprint races are a different kettle of fish and work out around £12-13 / minute of track time, but that gives much more close racing.
Ill save my £600 and the risk to the car from a Non-important race! It'll pay for the fuel to Anglesey.
Given the choices I favour option B. (I appreciate it is difficult putting a race calendar together that meets the needs of everyone, but it was clear from the AGM that the majority did not want 2 trips to wales 2 weeks apart).
I would take option B also. although it is far from ideal, as Anglesey is such a great circuit. If there was no change I would, like Andrew, choose to not do the endurance at Pembrey as it is such poor value with nothing to show for it.
I think the Board may have been influenced in including an Enduro at Pembrey by the number of hands that went up in favour (though not mine) at the AGM and I believe were slightly surprised!
However, the issue now is, the whole idea of the enduro was to try and appeal to different drivers to increase interest ahead of the 24hr. Now that it's for the championship that goes out the window!
And yes Ainslie, the enduro was seen as a good thing at the AGM, but once the idea and sheer cost was mulled over it's appeal probably fell considerably!
I personally think option B is the best option.
I can understand everyone's side to the discussion. And I can completely understand the amount of time and effort the committee have gone through to get us a season of racing.
For me the issue is the travelling to wales twice in 2 weeks. Having a non championship enduro race that could cause damage to the cars and engines and having not a lot of time to sort these out. It will be a shame to only have a 3 round sprint season, but as it is I think this is the best way to get round this situation.
Thank you again to the committee.
Anglesey was actually the track I was most looking forward to this season, but looks like option B is the the most viable. Seems to me that sorting how points are scored could get complicated but I'll leave that to our fantastic board to work out! 😉
Well it appears that the BARC are trying it on again. >:( >:(
It was always bloody obvious from the initial proposed calendar that two meeting two weeks apart was never going to fly.
BTW anglesey (If i am correct) is shown on BARC website as long configuration anyway, "without" the corkscrew. Another 2 minute plus lap.
Why are we being asked now what we want to do after a decision has already been made by the board to cancel Anglesey and after the calendar has been apparently agreed and finalised? It seems as though we are just choosing if the Enduro is a championship round or not. My understanding from the AGM was that the board were directed to find an alternative for Anglesey and the full circuit at Oulton. I can understand that we can't choose the circuit layout which suits the majority of other cars but in the absence of any other solution from the BARC, such as more time, we should have been consulted before the calendar was finalised concerning Anglesey or Pembrey. If two 20 minute races cost around £80 more than two 15 minute races, I don't know if the additional cost would put people off as I don't think the overall cost is really ever mentioned as an issue. If we are simply happy to pay more for longer races at longer circuits (or ones further away) then should we just not ask how much this would be? It appears that alienating the BARC by these actions may make running the club financially more difficult from now onwards. I don't know when the initial discussions take place about circuits and dates but can't we all be involved a litter earlier in the process rather than waiting until the AGM with a fait accompli.
I prefer the long circuit at both Oulton and Anglesey.
maybe you could win both races if you are the only one