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Has anybody got a roll cage for a 2cv for sale?

My dad is looking for a safety devices cage for a car he's building.

Louis

Please see attached minutes from 18th of July Tech Committee meeting.

Louis

All,

If you have a technical proposal to make please get this to me by the 1st of July.

Kind Regards,

Louis

I plan to hold the second tech committee meeting of the year on the 11th of Apri, 19:30, at the Otter in Kegworth (near Derby / Loughborough) I'll post the address once it is booked - this should be Sunday..

All are welcome, just let me know in advance if you plan on coming and aren't currently on the tech committee , so I can get a big enough table.

If you can't attend but would like us to discuss something, please let me know and I will add it to the Agenda which will be posted closer to the time.

Louis

All, please see attached Technical Committee Minutes from yesterday's meeting:

Belts and their mounting in the vehicle are probably one of the most important parts of the car.

So: with the introduction of HANS I've put a bar in my cage behind the seat which feeds the belt to the top of the drivers shoulders at just above horizontal, well within the 10 degrees. The belts then go to the floor mounts on the rear seat box / tank saddle. These are at more than 45 degrees maybe 60 or 70 degrees. The scruteneer at Anglesey asked me to move them by passing the bar, and mounting straight to the floor. I reluctantly agreed but wasn't all that happy about the belts going direct to the seat.

The point of the post: the drawing in the blue book shows the 45 degrees to the seat, but I guess this applies to the bar too? What's the mathmatical reason for it being 45 degrees? There must be one other wise it wouldn't be recommended? Secondly I've unfortunately crash tested those belt mountings and I'm happy to say they worked.

I think unless I mount the belts to the bar, which I think I will (though it places a lot of faith in my welding!) I will struggle to meet the 45 degrees. I could mount them to the rear chassis legs but that seems entirely stupid. Maybe others in the club will also have this issue so it there a broadly applicable recommendation available anywhere. Is the bar the safest place to mount from?

Any one know if there is some form of live timing from Zandvoort this weekend?

Afternoon all, or Morning or Evening dependant on when you read this...
Basically after thinking about the rules and looking at them for a short period I think that everyone who has a stake in the club should have a look and see what they think – and feel free to tell me I'm wrong... I don't think the rules are wrong really, on the whole they make sense and are relevant.
What I'm proposing might not even be a technical change, as I am aware it is too late in the game for next season now – maybe a review of the rules or an open forum with the technical board about the regulations. Maybe we just need more diagrams and more specifics, and rules that aren't slightly overlapping or confusing - it'll help those enforcing them and those following them.

I think that we should have a look at them and understand what we can do to prevent a lot of the cars in the series being 'illegal' for things that are really a little irrelevant, or maybe they are and we should look at clarifying these things to avoid the rules being ignored or misunderstood in future. The 'Rules is Rules' approach is needed, and was exercised at Cadwell in the technical inspections however it's only valid if the rules are relevant and have been recently reviewed. I think the club should be pragmatic about this and allow things that have been modified for many years (maybe even as long as the club has been in existence) so long as they are not performance enhancing or safety critical.
I realise I've missed the Technical proposal dead line, but I also realise that I may be wrong or have missed a few so anyway....
'5.1 The following Technical Regulations are set out in accordance with the MSA specified format and it should be clearly understood that if the following texts do not clearly specify that you can do it you should work on the principle that you can not. For the purposes of these regulations, modification means any change in the design, material, shape, dimension and / or surface finish of any component except for basic manufacturing processes, normal wear and published service or repair procedures. 'Standard' is as defined in Citroen manuals MAN108161 and MAN 30816'
So I guess we can't do a few things for example make 1 piece front ends, as this would mean the panels were not mounted as original in :

'5.6.1.1 General The body shell shall be all standard steel 2CV6 mounted on the chassis in its original position and by the manufacturer's original method. Both right and left hand drive models are permissible. With the exception of the "A" panels and rear wings all panels shall be mounted in their original position by the manufacturer's original method. All doors shall be fitted with original anti-burst locks, which shall be kept unlocked during any practice or competition. Each rear door locking lever shall be held in the unlocked position by means of a spring.
3 rear view mirrors shall be fitted as a minimum (1 interior and 2 exterior). The exterior mirrors shall be standard unmodified 2CV door mirror assemblies fitted in the manufacturers intended position.'
However it is permissible to modify the headlamp bar verticals...
As per:



'5.10.1. Exterior lighting
It is permissible to modify the vertical members of the lighting bar to aid quick removal. A horizontal support bar of 15mm max dia and 1mm wall thickness may be fitted to aid fitting and removal. Rear lights and brake lights shall be operable. A high level rear brake light must be fitted in the rear window. It is permissible to use replica plastic headlamp and indicator lenses that have been approved by the Eligibility Scrutineer. Rear indicators must be fitted and working. A 5 watt telltale shall be fitted and working on the instrument panel. It is permissible to fit additional rear indicators to the boot lid.'
So I guess this basically allows a 1 piece front? Or does it because it's not specifically stated? Another question is around headlamp bowls – can I modify them, I assume I can't but if I could then I can get some really nice units in there for the 24hr, but I guess that's performance enhancing... (I'll check 24hr regs shortly can't see anything specific with a brief scan)
Another one is the roof bar above where the Roll Cage sits, this is a modification that has been performed on quite a few of the older cars where the Roll Cage is slightly too tall to fit so the mid bar has been removed. It has however been removed for the fitting of a safety device – which is pretty common sense. It is however considered to be integral as I understand it, however I can't find a list of those components considered to be integral to the body. I'm sure we can create one of these there aren't that many parts to a shell!! (Ruled by 5.6.2.2)
Is it permissible to brace the body to the Roll Cage? Could this be done as an alternative to trying to smash a roof bar flat, then re weld it into the original un-accessible position? Is it permissible to re-locate the roof bar?
Should cars with Roll Cages braced to the body (apart from in the original locations) be penalised as it stiffens the shell and gives a performance advantage? I'm sure a similar thing has happened with a chassis in the past, however I am aware there were other circumstances in that instance. I can't find anything in section K of the bluebook about that specifically but maybe Trevor will put me right!
'5.10 The standard 2CV electrical system shall be retained. It is permissible to modify or replace the wiring loom. The fitting of additional instrumentation and switches is also permitted.'
That one's just daft... if it's modified surely it's not standard? Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly and so long as you keep the standard wiring you can tape in a 911 GT3 Loom (I imagine it's heavier so I wouldn't try it..)
How about front indicators, I think they should be fitted, but I doubt there's anything to be gained from blanking over the holes? A tiny amount of aero? Anyway the car that won this weekend had indicators or at least empty units at the front, so maybe this could be permitted, or should it be outlawed?
Vent flaps – Are they allowed to be sealed/closed/filled, can't find where it says they can be though.
Moving of the Washer Jet – The rules say it must work but don't say you can move it? Can I use an electric pump?
How about the way the boot fastens, should that be the original handle? I guess it should really, but there's very few that are.
5.10.5. Windscreen Wipers It is permissible to remove one windscreen wiper arm and blade. It is permissible to modify the windscreen wiper mechanism, retaining the standard motor, to allow single blade operation. An operable windscreen washing system shall be fitted
Mounting the steering column to the dash with the non-standard mount? I can't find where it says that either – but there's plenty of cars that use a U bolt, something which I don't really see as being an issue, but if rules are rules then we'd best find a few steering column and lock assemblies!
5.12.1. Permitted Modifications
A universal steering joint shall be fitted at the base of the steering column.
It is permissible to use any track rod adjuster that uses the existing threaded ends of the track rods and the track rod end housing
It is permitted to reinforce the track rods by sleeving.
It is permissible to fit an additional clamp on the track rod adjuster sleeves and weld the pivot arms to the hub assemblies.
It is permitted to fit a non-standard steering wheel.
Are we allowed to use Data Loggers? Ones that do more than just lap times? I imagine this is really not that critical, may even be legal.
That's all I can think of just at this moment but please feel free to add to these, or correct me.
I'm not aiming at anybody I've tried to include all of those that I can think of so that it covers as many cars as possible, some of these things are on a lot of cars, and as such I personally wouldn't protest any of the above.
I really like the way the Technical Inspections work, they're a little informal and aimed at gently pushing all the cars back to the right side of the rules, however maybe we should not just look at the cars but the rules too, try and make them as current and relevant as possible before or whilst we scrutinise not performance enhancing / safety critical rule breakers... I also don't want to spend time and money making something fit the rules, if the rule is daft and then eventually gets changed.
I'll attach the copy of the rules that I've based this on. I await being shot down in flames, however I felt this may be more productive than harassing Hollis about his lack of Hi-Vis.
Louis.

It was suggested a while ago that we could potentially race on Boxing Day at Mallory Park, what were the figures, and if not any can we enquire... I'm hungry for more!

If any body has got any turned arms that they are willing to get rid of then please contact me, thanks